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Blog: More thoughts on LL banking ban 

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Written by Xavier Mohr   
Thursday, 10 January 2008

By Xavier Mohr
SLReports.net

With the recent ban on Second Life banking by Linden Lab, a lot of friends and just bystanders in general have asked me about my shock level in response to this move.

While my stance may be a bit unpopular, I have to tell the truth on this one. I cannot say that I am surprised by the policy in itself, given the long track record of financial disasters we've seen in Second Life.

To name just a few...

Virtual Commerce Exchange (VCE) / Sal Ackland (Kyle Van Leuven)
Disappeared with investor funds. Some refunds were made, though many investors report not receiving the full amounts they entrusted to Mr. Ackland.

Ginko Financial Group / Nicholas Portocarrero (Andre Sanchez)
Declared itself insolvent after the Linden Lab gambling ban. After failed attempts to raise additional capital, balances were converted to bonds. After bond payments ceased, bondholders received shares of the World Stock Exchange dumping-ground stock known as WTF.

The Bank / Jasper Tizzy (Frank Corsi)
Disappeared amid speculation that low land prices had significantly impacted the solvency of the bank. Tizzy came to his own defense later in SLReports.net comments citing his long-standing bank disclaimer that the business was a game. No evidence of public refunds to date.

Allenvest Financial / Investor Allen (Kyle Van Leuven again)
Declared itself insolvent following the sale of AVIX and emergence of the 'bank-only' allenvestfinancial.com. Depositor refunds underway via Bogart Beck, disseminating Allen's portfolio to depositors on behalf of the SL Capital Exchange.

SmartVest / Blazed Miles (Real Name Unknown)
Disappeared from the grid after allegations were confirmed that the CEO was actually a 15-year-old student in Pennsylvania. Information supports the fact that most depositors were probably refunded as well as could have been expected.

Midas Bank / Midas Commons (Real Name Not Available)
Declared insolvent by the World Stock Exchange. Midas Bank was heavily invested in shady Second Life securities, most notably the Hope Capital Bond, whose failure to provide a schedule bond payment spelled ultimate disaster for the institution. Refund status unknown.

If you go by the liberal figures tossed around in each of these circumstances by self-proclaimed Second Life market analysts, we see with just these few instances losses equating to more than a million U.S. dollars.

I hate to say it, but if you never once thought Linden Lab would step in with regard to in-world banking, you've been covering your ears shouting, "Na-na-na-na."

I can only imagine how many abuse reports Linden Lab received against each of these players and their businesses. The inevitability of this move, though, really started bearing itself to me in October.

I was approached on the condition of anonymity by a former Ginko and The Bank depositor, who was interested in circulating a petition asking Linden Lab to ban in-world banking. Of course, I could not participate. I thanked the user for trusting my opinion, but informed him it would be a massive conflict of interest to get involved in such an effort.

It was shortly after that, as I was researching a possible story lead, that I came across hard evidence of a pro-bono legal services group that was "investigating microfinance related to online gaming." I shared this with a few close confidants and virtual bankers, all of whom basically laughed it off as something that would not get off the ground, or something that was unrelated to their businesses.

There were other signs, too. In real life, I received a telephone call from someone claiming to be investigating virtual banks. Whether or not this was legitimate or just a prankster with nothing better to do is something I am not certain of even to this day.

Others more well-placed in these matters than I am have also seen the signs. I've heard rumors of virtual bankers being told to "get out while they can." Everyone, basically, has heard rumors as well of Linden Lab refunding depositors of smaller, failed banks that have disappeared. Of course, rumors are just rumors... the truth of which is always hidden in the first link of what is often an endless human chain of embellishment and misunderstanding.

Whether or not any of that means anything is up for debate. Of course, the 'gist' of it all spelled out clearly what would be Linden Lab's final, and only word in this matter – a ban of in-world banking.

To an extent, I understand the move. I understand how easy it is for account holders to illegally hide real-life earnings via virtual banks. I understand that the overall reality argument of the Linden Dollar made the banks themselves susceptible to real-life regulation. I understand that arguably unsustainable interest rates at opaque institutions paint a picture that can easily be portrayed as a Ponzi Scheme. I do not, however, understand the logic of a "two-week notice."

We have hundreds of thousands, if not well over a million, U.S. Dollars at stake in the closure of Second Life's largest virtual banks. In Second Life, just like the real world, banks do not keep all of their Linden Dollars on-hand as a reserve.

Banks must invest depositor funds in order to pay interest. Anyone who believes a legitimate bank has the ability to fully pay back depositors within a day, or days, needs to study up a bit more on the world of finance. Simply put, most of the money on deposit at all Second Life banks is not readily available... it's in the form of loans, collecting returns from real-world accounts, invested in virtual exchanges, and so on. Liquidation of assets, for most banks, would take far longer than two weeks... assuming the virtual banker rightfully wants to preserve the principal investment.

However, the cut-and-run policy by Linden Lab is not a surprise given their track record of inept community governance. We have seen virtually no statement on in-world finance in the past, and the few times I have attempted to get information from Linden Lab about virtual finance, they have reacted in horror like I brought up the one subject that they weren't supposed to talk about.

Any corporation concerned about their users would have handled the banking ban differently. A 90-day timeline, while very short in itself, would have been a better route. Or, better yet... how about staggered regulation?

For instance, all in-world banks must submit articles of incorporation and evidence of solvency by February 1. By April 1, all in-world banks must be compliant with the Patriot Act and other U.S. laws affecting account holders of financial institutions. By August 1, all in-world banks must submit a registration statement or bank charter.

I think, if this would have been done properly, it could have worked well for the Second Life economy. The legitimate banks would have had time to get their real lives situated in a manner that would allow them to continue their virtual businesses. The fraudulent businesses would have disappeared quickly.

The implementation of this policy, however, was truly dictatorial and careless. Much like the gambling ban, Linden Lab stayed quiet as they no doubt held meeting after meeting on the subject internally.

No warnings, no care for the business owners or depositors, just a quick and dirty, "You can't do that anymore."

Second Life, in my opinion, is becoming less and less, "Your world, your imagination," and more, "Phil's World, serving Phil's interests."

I would not at all be surprised to see a real-world bank pop up in Second Life within the next few months, doing much the same as was JT Financial or L&L Bank and Trust. In fact, I would not even doubt that the plans were already in place when this policy was implemented.

To me, Second Life has just in general become too boring, and too commercial. Gone are the days of vibrant user-owned businesses and variety in commerce. Instead, we're seeing the big dogs slowly spread their tentacles into areas once controlled by small business.

In short, Second Life is just becoming another bland social network, another faceless, regulated extension of the traditional Internet.

I gesture to say that if you think Linden Lab will stop their reign of power at a banking ban, you are wrong. Second Life business owners should be diligent in making sure that their service does not compete with some real-world corporation that can afford to enter a financial partnership with Linden Lab and sway their policies.

Capitalism and a free market will soon be things of the past here in Second Life, as regulation from Linden Lab trickles down to ensure that only real-world businesses can establish themselves as service providers here. Sorry Charlie, no sale... I prefer to do business with the faceless corporations through my web browser.

Where do we go from here? Good question.

Only time will tell.

Comments
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Don DelRio   | 2008-01-10 16:14:33
Xavier said "I would not at all be surprised to see a real-world bank pop up in Second Life within the next few months..."

I would be shocked to see real world banks getting involved in SL. The money involved is peanuts to them and for these peanuts they would have to deal with the insecurity and wild west nature of SL. I think not. Its a losing proposition for them. Real world banks have zero interest in SL and I'd be skeptical of any bank who did get involved in SL. SL is also not secure enough for the standards of RL banks. It would be a complete waste of time and effort for them and would show that they don't have their priorities straight. What profit potential is there? Banks make their money through fees and bogus charges. Even if they did offer interest it would be measly and canceled out after the fees any real world bank would surely charge. On top of all this we are in the midst of a real world credit crisis thats driving the real world economy to recession. Does that sound like a good backdrop for a real world bank to launch in SL? I think not. They'd be the laughing stock of the financial world.

There is no incentive for real world banks to be in SL. I must respectfully disagree with Xavier and say that I would not expect to see any real world bank launch in SL. Its the wishful thinking of people with no real world banking experience and with no basis in reality. When pigs fly I say. The banks thus far in SL are ponzi schemes at best with owners pretending to be bankers when they obviously don't have a clue. To pretend that they do have a clue is disingenuous. The list of failed banks Xavier provided in his article only goes to prove that point. Keep your lindens in your mattress folks, far safer than any bank in SL.
Xavier Mohr   | 2008-01-10 16:28:22
Don DelRio wrote:
There is no incentive for real world banks to be in SL. I must respectfully disagree with Xavier and say that I would not expect to see any real world bank launch in SL.


I think you are probably right from the standpoint of a bank launching an exclusive presence in Second Life.

However, you can't ignore the beneficial marketing reward of a bank setting up shop here. How nice would it be to go to a Chase ATM inside Second Life, deposit Linden Dollars, and have them immediately credited to your Chase account as USD?

This is something that would be much more difficult with other virtual banks in the mix.

While ALL of what I said with regard to real-world banking in Second Life was speculation (hence why I posted this under the guise of "Blog"), there are also a lot of great marketing and expansion possibilities here for real-world banking... especially now that the shady institutions are out of the mix.
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 16:37:18
*cough* staring at google ad to the left... "Saxo Bank – Official Site"
Samantha Goldflake     | 2008-01-10 16:53:02
Xavier, going to a RL bank ATM in SL, deposit some L$ and see them popup in your RL account may be nice for some people. Business owners, people moving big enough amounts of L$.

The newbie, any person not running a business, whomever does not have a big enough flow of L$, isn't gonna use those facilities, I think.

Depositing 50L$ I got from camping into my RL account would probably cost me way more in bank fees.

Also, that would be a direct conversion allowing customers to effectively bypass the LindeX or any other currency exchange.

To bring back those L$ to SL, I would have to buy them somewhere. More fees.

A solution may be to convert L$ into your RL account only upon request. But are RL banks gonna do that? Keep L$ accounts? Don't think so.

Maybe there are other pros and cons I can't think of, now.

Samantha Goldflake
VSTEX Communication and Public Relations Director
Don DelRio   | 2008-01-10 16:54:15
Someone wrote:
Howev
er, you can't ignore the beneficial marketing reward of a bank setting up shop here. How nice would it be to go to a Chase ATM inside Second Life, deposit Linden Dollars, and have them immediately credited to your Chase account as USD?


Once again I disagree. Real world banks can ignore the marketing reward of SL just fine. Why would they spend all the money it would take to set up in SL just for marketing when they could spend that same money elsewhere and hit a much bigger target market? Tell me what real world company has shown any demonstrable gains in business due to SL marketing? The answer would be none. In fact many have opened up shop in SL with big plans only to shut down with no interest or real traffic. Banks are even less likely to do it than other companies as banks would not only need to launch a presence but also build a whole banking infrastructure in SL which would take huge investment money and resources. All this for some worthless marketing? It simply isn't going to happen. And we haven't even touched on the potential for international money laundering and malfeasance created. I could go on and on why it will never happen.

I can't disagree that it would be nice to go to a Chase ATM in SL and deposit lindens and have them converted to USD in my bank account but its a pipe dream and will never happen. There are lots of things in life that would be nice but will never happen. It would be nice if Starbucks started free delivery and McDonalds started offering free fries but neither will ever happen. Its nice to dream but after awhile you need to step back into the real world and real world banks in SL will never happen.
Kailen Juran     | 2008-01-10 17:09:18
I don't know about the potential influx of RL markets into SL, but I do believe that the free market, in as far as it pertains to residents, is now dead. Should Linden Lab take the next logical step of stamping out the virtual corporation, then SL capitalism will be dead as well. The obvious substitute for this would be a feudal system, where land is the only source of wealth. I guess I better figure out how to construct a motte-and-bailey soon. :-)
Xavier Mohr   | 2008-01-10 17:13:17
I actually think you both make really good points. And... maybe I am wrong on this one... we'll see. :-P

Don is right in his assessment that few RL companies have actually been able to make an impact here. I remember H&R Block coming to SL earlier last year to help US residents prepare their taxes via Second Life. Best Buy, Armani, American Apparel... they have all tried to set up here and have all failed.

A lot of this, though, particularly with regard to your comments... hints at an impending hard-line realization – one way or the other – about Second Life.

Soon, we will see how much real-world value is here, and how much is just hype. Second Life will either establish itself as the real-world business and communications platform that Phillip Rosedale wants it to be, or it will fade into oblivion as a failed test of a user-created world that just couldn't control itself.

I do think it's funny, though, that we are having this argument about the Linden Dollar... which is supposedly a "licensed product" handed out at-will by Linden Lab as game tokens that have no guaranteed value.
James   | 2008-01-10 17:28:36
Xavier Mohr wrote:
"Your world, your imagination,"


What a joke.

You are right in that capitalism and the free market in Second Life are virtually dead. Stock exchanges are next in line with this rule.

Second Life banking was so obviously illegal from the outset. However you cannot ignore the fact that any losses we see from this will partly be the fault of Linden Lab. They allowed the ponzi scheme business model to operate in SL for what? two years? Now all the sudden the throw up the brick wall to the deposits that were funding the system.

I agreed they should have staggered the implementation of regulation. at least that might have given some time for these virtual bankers to come up with a workable solution for repayment
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 17:32:42
Xavier thanks for your last post. I think the more you consider all that would be involved in a real world bank entering SL the more one realizes how unlikely it is. In your last post you pointed out yet another reason why they wouldn't get involved...
Xavier wrote:
I do think it's funny, though, that we are having this argument about the Linden Dollar... which is supposedly a "licensed product" handed out at-will by Linden Lab as game tokens that have no guaranteed value.

Does anyone really think banks would get involved in a currency that is "a "licensed product" handed out at-will by Linden Lab as game tokens that have no guaranteed value."?? Real world banks would have to be retarded to want to get involved in a pretend currency who's value is dictated solely by a private corporation. If they could do that they'd just start their own currency. hehe Wouldn't they love that.

Anyway overall an interesting thread. Thanks for getting the discussion started Xavier!! Cheers
Don DelRio   | 2008-01-10 17:41:32
That last SLReports.net User post was me by the way ;-)

I'd like to add that it is a bit scary to see where SL is headed. Seems they find something new to regulate or ban all the time. Thats not to say they shouldn't, banking in SL is scam and should be stopped however it is sad to see a lack of citizen self government. Big Brother Linden will take care of us though... I hope o.O

obi-wan   | 2008-01-10 17:46:37
The ban is only about operating as a bank it dosent mean repayment cannot continue after Jan. 22.

As for the Free market in sl, if you believe its dead it will be dead for you, others will continue.
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 17:57:06
James wrote:
you cannot ignore the fact that any losses we see from this will partly be the fault of Linden Lab. They allowed the ponzi scheme business model to operate in SL for what? two years?


i dont think that all banks started out as ponzis, and i dont think that all current banks ARE ponzis. some people may have simply not been smart enough to realize if the deposits STOPPED they would be in trouble.

i have to disagree with obi-wan though. if you're an electric sheep robot that sees SL as a creative playground for real life interests then sure, your market is still there and booming.

if you are like me and came to SL to operate a business anonimously but legitimately as your alter ego, part time for fun, in something that is supposed to be a game, then the free market here is totally dead now.

all good business in SL is now reserved for RL business that can afford to deal with regulation

i think this is just the start of more regulation to come, and the ultimate downfall of the sl economy as we know it now
obi-wan   | 2008-01-10 18:46:29
To poster 12:
Am actually a content creator in Sl and am not an electric sheep robot, I built my business scripting products and selling it in-world. My customers are every day sl residents. And i have worked in sl full-time for a year now. There many others too doing good business in-world making more than above average RL income creating clothes, hair and scripted objects. Many that never used any bank or exchange.

If you came to SL to operate a business and make RL money then you have to understand your business will have rl implications. The bigger your business grows the more it becomes an rl business.

Same way you cannot do transactions almost a million USD and still tell yourself its just a virtual business.

If you came to sl solely to run a business then you maybe in the wrong platform but if you explore the world for fun and contribute value to the community you could still find yourself running a profitable business.


Xavier Mohr   | 2008-01-10 19:22:16
(quotes removed because they made my comment too long)

Obi-Wan is in a unique position as a scripter because it is possibly the one line of business that operates in SL pretty much the same as it does in RL. Scripters in SL get RL rates... easily. The M&Ps for the business are about the same. Of course, barring any cataclysmic fallout to the economy from the banking ban, his business would change very little with or without regulation (except perhaps the types of orders he receives).

I have to say, for most people, that the impacts of regulation do in fact change the very nature of "Second Life," in fact... it seems more reasonable to call SL nowadays, "First Life 2."

We have seen the banning of gambling, ageplay, rapeplay, beastiality, and now banking. Despite your feelings on all of these things, we have to some point decide whether this is going to be a 'second life' where we can fulfill the fantasies unattainable in real-life... whether that's operating a bank or casino, or having sex with a donkey... whatever....... or whether it's just an extension of our first life, with all the applicable regulations.

I'm sorry to say that the Second Life platform is just not feature-packed enough to make me want to do real-life business within it. Why spend all day in a lag-filled, unstable platform if I am having to abide by the same rules and regulations that I do offline... when I, in fact, could simply do the same thing offline without the hassle?

Linden Lab needs to make a clear effort to either support the immersionists, or the realists... two groups as old as Second Life itself. It seems the points of view on both sides have clearly become too far apart for them to pander to both.

As I have said many, many times... this is either a game all the way, or it is real all the way. As we have seen with the banking ban, regulations to keep SL floating somewhere between those two things don't work out all that well.
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 19:47:38
I honestly don't think there is enough money in SL banks to cause any type of serious economic disaster for the grid. Most people don't use them, to be honest. I didnt

i really don't like the banking ban though, myself. it sort of makes it, "Your World, Your Imagination... as long as you are playing within the rules." i agree that regulation after regulation make this less of an exciting place to be.
SLReports.net User     | 2008-01-10 19:52:53
Some banks will set up shop in here, some won't. Depends on the bank and its policies.

Imagine the first mover advantage if something does happen to make the Second Life economy bigger and stronger than ever.
SLReports.net User     | 2008-01-10 20:25:23
(ageplay,-Promotes pedophilia rapeplay-promotes rape, beastiality=promotes
god knows what,) Are you kidding XM. I know we havent always seen I2I but these are definitely good things to ban.

Robo
Xavier Mohr   | 2008-01-10 20:32:51
Robo, I actually agree with you as far as the morality of those things. The problem I am getting at is that Linden Lab is treading a very slippery slope with regard to banning random things.

I fear overregulation of this platform will turn this into exactly what I have hinted at... a bland, faceless, corporate extension of the Internet where the little guy can't compete, or where there's not enough creative potential to justify using the platform.

Note: Edited
Cash Yiyuan   | 2008-01-10 22:31:28
Let face it, they have been here since March: check out SAXO, but something more interesting...check out SL Capex forums under general discussion and you will see a post from me, titled "Something Interesting in SL...!!?? #@!!%%$", then visit SAXO in world to see what I mean....


Regards,
Cash
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 22:55:54
I will agree with the main points made by Xavier. Even if i do not expect rl banks to come to sl very soon it is a very logical step that they will appear at some point. The reason is simple: people in sl are able to do real businesses and earn real money. So when real businesses exist the next step is real banks to appear too. The size of the business in sl is not big enough YET to attract rl banks but the size could become big enough in the future as long as the volume of sl business expands.In any case the cost of opening an sl bank is non-existent for an rl bank.

Lindens, on the other hand, have no reason to rush things in this direction since they are not ready yet. The platform faces several problems that need to be taken care of before seeking big things.. At the moment i can see the Lindens trying to attract more rl firms to operate in sl and improve the performance of the platform, while cleaning sl from "parasiting" activities..They also need to build some stable and transparent regulatory environment about the sl activities of the residents.

This will gradually happen. It may take a few more years to achieve all these aims but sl was built, or at least this is what lindens say, to live long-term and not 3,5 or 10 years.

I do not doubt that they will succeed. But i also do not doubt that sl 5 or 10 years later will have nothing in common with sl today..
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-10 23:06:11
The Second Life Terms of Service states in section 1.4 "Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time."

As long as L$ are defined this way in their ToS, there is no RL bank that is stupid enough to get involved. Plain and simple!!
Ann Otoole   | 2008-01-10 23:29:28
anyone who thinks LL is going to ban some activity to allow a silent partner to set up shop and corner a market is ignorant of the laws against this sort of activity in the USA. these laws are happily and vigorously prosecuted by law enforcement and the criminal penalties include real jail terms. nobody at LL is that stupid. LL is merely moving to stop any further nigerian scam style operations in sl. as stated by many of you sl financial sector experts, there are millions of US dollars involved and thus these sectors, when anything goes wrong, warrants an investigation by the US Secret Service-who happens to have the jurisdiction in this not so gray area.

if your for real and have the assets to back up the depositors then go get licensed and insured as a bank. if you do i seriously doubt you will bother with sl much longer as there are so many rl people to fleece for much better profits than piddly micropennies in sl.
SLReports.net User   | 2008-01-11 03:01:23
I am from the Netherlands and to my knowlege a division of ING bank (soon to be one of the biggest banks in the world) named the Postbank already has already established a presence in SL for quite some time. Ofcourse it is still only to provide information to (potential) customers about their services and such, but it would not take much for it to be a fully functional operation if they may choose to do so and the cost of it would be a joke to them compaired to the benefits of brand recognition and marketing purposes. Do not forget that SL is one of the pioneers on the road to a 3D internet evironment. Instead of the 2D outdated system we use today internetprovideds will soon be offering 3Dwebsite accounts we know as the sims in SL. LL could be on its way to become one of the biggest providers of new generation webspace. Big RL companies are always interested to be part of leading techknowlegy projects. The point is..... It is better to have it and not need it (yet), then to need it and not have it.
Xavier Mohr   | 2008-01-11 16:39:46
Yes... to the last comment... I looked a bit after writing this and found several real-life banks that already have a presence in Second Life.

Who knows, right?

I have no prediction one way or the other on whether RL banks will set up shop and operate in SL, but I DO think if you are riding a hardline stance in one direction or the other you are bound to be surprised with things to come regarding the SL economy.

I should also note that Maelstrom Baphomet shared my point of view to an extent on RL banks setting up shop here. If you don't read Mael already, you should start:

dragonsbite.blogspot.com
Anonymous   | 2008-02-22 12:33:53
In the US the Patriot Act will keep banks from opening any type of branch other than info only. The Patriot act requires full disclosure of RL info on accounts, something virtually (HA!) impossible in SL.
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